@Sanchez...you hit the nail on the head!!!!!

I never had AC in my school. What happened to the gambling revenue? Who votes for these idiots? Oh wait the idiots of MD do.

CP....not all of us voted for O'Malley or the casino!

CP - They had neither AC nor computers when I went to school - does that mean they never should have either?

Say What?????

I agree 100%. As a teacher, I can tell you, our schools are lacking what other institutions would consider necessities. I do not make much money either, yet I would be willing to part with some to improve our schools.

Exactly! I keep hoping we're going to see something for our forgotten school.

???? Please think about your idea for another second to realize how insane it is for about a dozen different reasons. You sound like the NRA nutjobs talking about how we need armed militias to roam school hallways, as if mimicking Somalia and Iraq is a good idea or something.

How is it that some 7-11's and J Brown Jewelers on Reisterstown Road has Police substations IN THE STORES? Protecting gold and diamonds and Big Gulps is fine but we can't have armed police in schools while they do paperwork or make phone calls can we?

"NRA nutjobs talking about how we need armed militias to roam school hallways"

I challenge you to find a quote form anyone saying such lies that you spout! That is not what the NRA or anyone else is saying. Why the need to lie?

One third of all schools in the nation ALREADY employ armed guards as did Columbine in which the armed guard distracted the shooter and may have prevented lives form being lost.

"Marlboro, N.J., schools get armed officers.
January 5, 2013 4:38 PM
Even before Newtown, one-third of American public schools had an armed guard or police officer present. And as Magalie Laguerre-Wilkinson reports, when classes resumed after the holidays this year, the schools of suburban Marlboro, N.J., were added to the list."
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50138299n

"New Jersey town arms its schools"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57562258/new-jersey-town-arms-its-schools/

No need to lie to make a point jag. Or maybe you do have that need since the fact schools already have such.

Speaking of Nutjobs here comes Sheriff Joe on cue. He has some sort of citizens militia guarding the schools.

http://news.yahoo.com/armed-guards-sent-patrol-schools-la-phoenix-171345550--abc-news-topstories.html

What could possibly go wrong there??

I guess next we will need the armed guards on the ballfields where our kids play?

The comparison to protecting banks and armored cars with armed guards is ridiculous. People who attack those things are looking to steal MONEY and get out ALIVE. They are taking a risk that they deem worth it. The people that go into schools, movie theaters, etc. have serious mental issues: they are looking to kill, and don't intend to make it out alive.

It is also silly to say "such and such a school would have had more people die if there wasn't an armed person present". So I guess the first 10 or so kids are a worthy sacrifice to the alter of easy to access guns because we can protect the rest with an armed guard?

I am not anti-gun. However, the rules for gun ownership need tightening up. Escalating armament over every incident brings us closer and closer to the Wild Wild West, where everyone was armed - gee that was a civil and safe society! Instead of having to protect children behind more armaments, lets get the armaments out of the hands of people that are mentally unstable and need help.

They might not be looking to get out alive, but they choose places where the people are unarmed, and they take themselves out when an armed person shows up or presents themselves.

What about Columbine? They had armed guards! The people that propose this are the exact same people that whine about spending too much money on,well,anything and you're not gonna complain about the hundreds of millions we will spend on cops in schools,right! We make laws about too many snacks,sugar,soda,etc. but you cant touch too many guns or people loose their minds! You want a gun carry a single shot rifle or lets go back to muskets and when somebody goes on a shooting spree its one and done.

No, they had ONE gurard, who was on the other side of the building, in his private vehicle eating his lunch. That's why the shooters picked that time and that place to start their rampage, so it makes my point.

I don't think they should put armed guards at the schools, as shooters could just take them out. Better would be to arm a few of the people already there all day, and have no one know who is armed.

Morris Zwick,

I was going to stay out of this, but you described what we have now as "easy access to guns" and that this would lead to the "wild west" which is presumably a bad thing. The wild west was not so wild. The gunfight at the OK Corral in Tombstone had 3 deaths. The only deaths that year. And the highest body count Tombstone ever had, EVER.

This would be under dumb as hell ideas everyone thinks are true: http://www.cracked.com/article_18487_6-ridiculous-history-myths-you-probably-think-are-true.html

Physical security works (which is why we do it in federal buildings) but it is onerous and expensive. Stop using imprecise terms like "tightening up" about gun ownership. They are tight. No felons. No court sanctioned mentally unstable people. It is a fundamental right, so the onus is on the government to prove why more limitations are merited.

Massacres can happen with a guy with a truck (cars are at least twice as deadly in the US as any other cause of death, because they are big and fast. Think about what they could do to a crowd of people and you will understand my point). Demonizing gun ownership misses the point. There are myriad ways to harm others, especially children. One must either physically defend them, or not, but in the end, there will always be many risks, and they must be accepted.

Correction Alex, death from a gun are almost exactly equal to deaths from vehicles and deaths from guns are expected to surpass vehicular death by 2015.

"almost","expected"

typical, subjective terms, the only cheaper play would have been to straw man him... of that entire comment Alex made that was the best you could do FIFA?

Ahh, the old "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics."

What FIFA neglects to mention about "deaths from guns" is that well over half of them are SUICIDES. And a huge chunk are deaths by willful participants in the drug war. Go on and on through the different types of "deaths from guns" (a hopelessly misleading statistic, given how different are the nature of these deaths), eliminating police shootings of suspects, self-defense by citizens, etc? You get VERY different numbers than the inflated nonsense people scare you with. They talk about Sandy Hook and throw 30,000 "gun deaths" per year at you. The number killed in mass shootings (4 or more by FBI classification) of innocent strangers is on the order of 40-60 annually. And per that bastion of right-wing propaganda, the LA Times, the number doesn't appear to be seriously increasing, over time, despite a spate of recent headlines.

Anyone who considers "gun deaths" as one category is a fool or a charlatan trying to mislead others. A suicide is very different from a police shooting of a suspect is very different from a Sandy Hook.

BTW, for some context on risk, year over year, the number killed annually in mass shootings runs on the order of 1/10th of the number hit by lightning.

Mike is the next Fifi target since he makes sense. They are the Patch Vulture victims.

So right about suicides and I personally do not include them in my firearm crime discussions. I do not look at suicide as gun crime since the only one true victim.

Mike brings up an important issue.
ANYONE who is serious about discussing gun crime should study the FBI UCR on homicide first, at least as far as their intellect allows as we know so many anti rights people have so little of that. They are here.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense-data

The gaming revenue going to the schools is not EXTRA money going to the schools just a different source. Not one more dime is being spent on schools because of gaming revenue. That was all a ruse.

It was all a lie to get the Casinos. Not one penny has gone to the schools, and it never will. People need to vote with logic, but instead they voted for their own selfish greed.

Right-on. Buildings don't equal education. Nor do the amount the teachers make. There is no relationship whatsoever. I speak from experience. Read my comment below. School where I went was 100 years old, teachers were high school grads with teacher certificates and upon graduations most of us could pass college exams. Go figure, huh?!! Politicians got you believing money equals education again, eh?

A school that is 100 years old has proven the test of time..

Pretty dumb joke, suzq. We all know you poorer counties get much more back in state money than you pay in taxes.

You reap what you sow?

It appears you got what you paid for Al.

You must be in your 90's. Collective bargaining for teachers has been in place since button-down shoes.

Here is the data from 2011:

http://www2.census.gov/govs/state/11statesummaryreport.pdf

The number in the report is 34.7% for Maryland. It takes a right wing analysis of the data to come up with a "higher" number. Go CATO institute.

Fifa, the other link I offered said "Education accounts for a 21% of the total statewide budget - $31.7 billion."
which is why I posted both. Who knows the exact number. Both are too high in my book.

I'd like to see the money support home schooling efforts and curriculum development..

Yes, as a percentage of the budget what would you rather see it spent on? You can argue about whether too much is spent, but when you start saying too much is spent as a percentage of the overall budget then you are saying it should be spent on something else...

Why would you say that Germany has the right idea Frank..? Why is homeschooling illegal in Germany..?

Thank you Evets..

We are seeing schools across America indoctrinating students to believe in all sorts of politically correct notions. The history that is taught in too many of our schools is a history that emphasizes everything that has gone bad, or can be made to look bad, in America -- and that gives little, if any, attention to the great achievements of this country

Frank also thinks the economy in 1979 "was fine".

It is a larger amount than in the past. In the last few years, as a result of the Kopp Study, the state has set aside $250 m or more in school construction and renovation funding which is paid for from the sale of bonds. There is no requirement on the state to fund any particular amount for school construction and renovation costs. The state is required to fund education costs through its operations budget.

Thank you Brian. Just as I thought. Not really a huge news story but a photo op for the boy gov.

Sanchez: I'll leave that decision to you and others. Last year, the total amount of funding was about $350 million when you count everything. This year it's $336 but I caution that more money can be added later in the summer as was done last year.

Also, the Kopp Commission recommended $250 M per year to upgrade aging schools so this is more than what was recommended.

Well, given that we have the 8th highest cost of living in the nation, we are getting a bargain then! http://www.cnbc.com/id/48058145/page/4

And given that we have the best schools in the nation and pay nowhere near the most $$ per pupil, I'd agree we're gettin' a good bang for our buck.

Jag, first, if you think we have the "best schools in the nation" then you're probably unaware of just how juked the stats are. But even if we take that assumption as gospel, you're missing the point. Why are there schools in foreign countries that get far better results with pennies on the dollar? Because there is INCREDIBLE WASTE and ABUSE in our school system. Even if you believe we're number one, with all the evidence of fraud in testing, it's like saying you're the tallest midget on the block.

On an absolute scale the school system is INCREDIBLY expensive and delivers TERRIBLE results. We could do better with half the money if they were properly run.

And jag, btw, the big problem isn't the teachers. There are good ones and lots of bad ones, but plenty of good. The problem is the garbage the teachers are forced to teach, mixed with the siphoning off of half the money to people who do NOTHING to teach, or to improve teaching.

Try for a REAL audit of North Avenue sometime. We are being robbed blind.

I don't believe you for a single second WL. That is one of the larger falsehoods on the planet.

The real issue is that the public school is required to take children regardless of their capabilities. I would seriously challenge WL when he takes that "average" private school child and throws them into the GT or AP classes of a Baltimore County high school.

@Evets,

I too have had former private school students show up in my classroom. As you say most (not all) are better behaved when they arrive. That has a tendency to change when they get accustomed to the public school environment. Unfortunately many coming from private schools to the public schools do so because they were kicked out for disciplinary reasons, not meeting the oft times more demanding academic standards of the private school, and in a few cases families are no longer able to afford the tuition.

@ Evets

This problem with teacher retention will only get worse for the teaching profession with the implementation of teacher evaluations tied to student performance. We are already seeing it throughout school systems where administrators refuse to take student disruptive conduct and lack of student motivation into account during evaluations by immediately blaming the classroom teacher because a student performs poorly. I fear we will see an even greater number of fine teachers leave and few wanting to enter the profession.

You can equate the new teacher evaluations as a different form of NCLB. An ever increasing number of heretofore recognized great schools were beginning to be labeled as failing schools because the rising expectations (which made good sound bites for politicians and justification for education bureaucrats at the Department of Education and state board level to have jobs) were never reachable. Great teachers will increasingly be discredited and say enough is enough and leave. More of the same will be the eventual result in the supposedly latest best thing called Race To The Top which will also fail because it too is unrealistic.

@Evets,

I would very much like the opportunity to talk with you privately. Are you on Facebook or is there some other way we can directly communicate?

Good points Matt..

I love it when people say things like "we didn't have car seats and we all lived" or "we all breathed asbestos and we all lived". Yes it is true, YOU lived. But others did NOT, which is why over time society invested in improving safety and comfort

Then all of this "we had bad this, that and the other" is also specious. Yes, the kids should all go out to the outhouse too because schools were better back then and we didn't even have running water.

Having two kids in high school and one in middle school, I think school is actually much TOUGHER than it used to be. It is much more difficult to get into college. The pressure is much higher. This line about how things were always so much better in the past is just bunk - these kids face a much more complicated, competitive world than we did. And given the pathetic leadership on both sides of the aisle in Washington, we need these kids to figure out how to pay for our fiscal sins. They need to invent the next new technology, find ways to deliver health care more cost effectively and govern in a more responsible fashion. I WANT them to get the finest education we can give them.

I am not a fan of the Governor's general approach to budget and spending, but on this topic it is penny wise and pound foolish to not invest in education.

That sounds like a conservative school?

Public education in general..

Non compliance is punished with perceived low grades...failure..making it a little tougher as life goes on....the failure stigma associated with the grading system used..

Why that sounds like most jobs! Isn't that ironic!

Most kids that don't show up see through the silliness, get bad grades, don't seem to care and are herded through...kinda like moving cattle....
I can relate to that Evets....glad that you are different..

Carroll County has a surplus of school space, and the Commissioners have thumbed their collective noses at the O'Malley gang...they will probably be disqualified from the funding...

I don't know where you're hiding. I get an e-mail every day or so from him and have been since he was elected plus I see almost every time I turn on the nightly news.

Gabe:
You started off saying "why should I pay"? and finish by saying "we don't need upgrades, we need new"???

Gabriel, just which god do you want taught in school? I don't use Senior Centers but pay for them, why? Your private church school doesn't pay income or property taxes, why? Why do I have to support your church school in this manner?

Frank has yet to tell us how great the 1979 economy was too! He runs like a Wisconsin Senator when confronted with easy questions.

Unless you compare cost of living with average wages you have a meaningless comparison.

We are the richest state, yet don't have anywhere near the highest cost of living.
We have the best schools, yet don't pay anywhere near the most, per pupil.

Yet somehow trolls find a way to complain about those facts. We are, literally, #1 yet you'd think we're some crap province in a third world country with the way some of you whine all day.

"We have the best schools, yet don't pay anywhere near the most, per pupil."

http://www.takepart.com/photos/10-states-spend-most-public-education/9-maryland-

Martyland #9 in spending per pupil at $13738.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-schools-insider/post/per-pupil-spending-how-does-maryland-rank/2011/11/17/gIQAvZaNiN_blog.html

Its just tooo easy.

Sanchez/Joe, thank you for proving my exact point. We have the very best schools in the country, yet pay substantially less than other states. It's like the O's beating the Yanks in the World Series - we get the sweetness of being #1 yet don't even need to shell out for the big payroll to do it. It's phenomenal in every way, yet trolls still find a way to whine about it. It's remarkable. And embarrassing.

Wow jag! You said "yet don't pay anywhere near the most, per pupil." does NOT in any way prove your point! We have 50 states and the DC. Md is in the top 10! How is that in any reasonable mind nowhere "near the most, per pupil.""

Denial is a way of life for you and those like you.

Sanchez/Joe, you're such a joke. Our 13.7K a pupil is nowhere near what the top states spend (18.7K a pupil). You showed that in your stats and I thank you for proving my point. Unless you're going to contend a 37% difference is negligible. I'd love for you to embarrass yourself further and contend that. Please, be my guest.

9th out of 51 seems to be closer to the top than the bottom. But I guess not to bottom dwelling buggers like jagoff and Frank.

All this relativist rating nonsense is appalling.

And of course, it makes no sense anyway when the school make-work lobby functions as a monopoly nationwide. You can't compare to a jurisdiction with school choice because even the parents of kids who go to private school PAY for the public schools they don't use. In fact, ALL THE CITIZENS without any kids PAY. The best you can hope to do with relativist rankings is to measure who gets ripped off the most versus least.

The schools are failing on an ABSOLUTE level. The argument that we're the "best" and that we only pay 74% of the most expense state's cost per pupil is like saying "we're doing well because we got a broken down Yugo with a flat tire for 80 grand and New York's had two flat tires and they paid 100 grand."

AND it ignores all the stat juking which appears to be rampant. So all the measurement is suspect anyway.

AND it assumes that the schools and the testing are respectively teaching and measuring the right things.

AND it ignores the implications of discrepancies in outcomes from places like Baltimore City, with I suspect the highest per-pupil costs, compared to juridictions that do FAR better with FAR less cost per.

(But aside from all that, the play rocked! -Mrs. Lincoln )

Mike, MoCo spends the most per pupil (completely destroying your nonsensical theory); sorry to disappoint your racist self. Not sure about the rest of your rant - seems to be just a bunch of tangential junk thrown against the wall that's similarly devoid of basic reasoning.

Jag: racist?! Really? Care to support that? Last I'd checked, Baltimore City had the highest per pupil costs. MoCo was up there too.

On my first search, it looks like we're both wrong.

http://parentscoalitionmc.blogspot.com/2010/10/mcps-2nd-in-per-pupil-spending-in.html

Except I said I "suspect" Baltimore City is highest in cost, you claim MoCo is.

But more important, where on Earth do you get 'racist' from? Sounds like you are wearing racism glasses, seeing it anywhere you don't like. Not the first person to do so, but still utterly despicable.

jag said: "Mike, MoCo spends the most per pupil (completely destroying your nonsensical theory); "

Further, Balt. City shows up as 4th on the list, closely behind 1-3. And my theory in no way relies on first place, the point is the expenditures are very high and the results are very low. Nothing racist about it, and nothing incorrect about it.

Well said Evets...Thank You .. The odds of Frank answering my question about why he says that Germany has the right idea about home schooling are pretty slim. Both he and FIFA have a track record of making this type of "one liner" statements without really thinking first. Without forethought~ afterthought requires a degree of surrender in this case. Something that both of them are getting pretty good at.

Evets, I fully understand your point of view, it is not a socialization argument against what you want to do. It is just my observations over 60 years of life. Like I said, some/many homeschoolers turn out quite fine. That does not mean they would not have been also fine in a public school setting as well, that is where you argument is weak.

You have the right to choose what you want to do with your children, my point is that choice is sometimes a poor choice. What is bizarre, is you are a public school teacher who has chosen to home school his own children. Some would call you a hypocrite or a capitalist? My views on religion do not require a response nor do I expect a dignified response from you as to my non-religious beliefs, how could I? You believe in a being that is omnipotent, I do not believe such a being exists. We agree to disagree.

PS - your children believe what you have taught them. Do not try to tell me that is not so. If you do, your are completely wrong.

Evets, then I misunderstood your comment about religion where your said "I will not even dignify that with a response".

Evets, fair enough.

Evets, regarding the Ravens, your child has seen the light!

I have to agree with Evets on this one. I have seen very few home schooled children that demonstrate problems with socialization. Home school parents are keenly aware of this perception that their children could suffer from a diminished exposure to peers but quite the opposite is true. I have found these parents usually go above and beyond to ensure that their children have quality interactions with others.

Evets is quite right about the steady diet of vulgar and insensitive language that is the norm found in many schools - even down at the elementary school level. When I have felt the need to contact parents about such conduct I am not surprised to find that the apple has not fallen far from the tree. Teachers seldom address this behavior because it is so pervasive and administrators simply will not deal with it - you know that problem of being identified as a problem school because office referral or suspension numbers are too high. The problem is not that teachers have lost control of their classrooms but rather that too many school based administrators have given control away of the entire building.

Bucky, my statement is much longer and in depth than your usual BS.

There is no irony. My opinion is my opinion. I question the value of home schooling.

It's is a contraction for it is or it has.
Its is the possessive form of it.

franking, are you related to Bill Clinton?

"it has value", feel better franking. Seems appropriate to me.

Yes, OT, franking is way off the point.

Franking is dead right. At most times, attempts to correlate spelling, grammar, diction or typing skill to the soundness of an argument are pedantic, the tools of small-minded fools or charlatans. However, when someone is looking down his nose at a particular form of education such errors are VERY ironic.

FIFA botched it. Franking caught it.

If anyone wants us to believe that what FIFA INTENDED was "it's" as a contraction for "it has" instead of an erroneous form of the possesive pronoun "its" ...LOL...well, (the rest is left an an exercise for the reader)

Mike, context is everything. You and your semantics are dead wrong and idiotic at best. Read the statement, it is clear. I love the English professors that come out of the woodworks who are unwilling to profess an opinion about anything but English. Man up, grow a set, give your opinion, or stand on the sidelines watching the game. You and chickens have a lot in common, MIkey.

FIFA, just have the stones to fess up to sticking your foot in your mouth, instead of digging in deeper with your defensive nonsense. You made the classic its/it's mistake in a sentence challenging the education that comes from homeschooling.

That's irony. And franking spotted it right away, and you're wrapped around the axle getting defensive instead of just laughing it off.

Give it a rest Carol, where were you when GW Bush went on vacation, asleep? Stop making stupid arguments.

" I saw in the paper they took 500 hundred??? people on vacation with them friends and relatives"

Carol, which paper? Please link to something to prove your statement.

Frank, who needs literacy when you can't spot sarcasm?

Yep.

Carol, Bush set the record for trips to Texas for vacation. We're you awake during that time? Do you remember the two wars he started and did not pay for? Gosh, time sure does fade memories.

Do you recall that Both Iraq and Afganastan approved by congress?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

Are you also aware that funding comes from congress?

Democrats are as complicit as republicans for not "paying for" the wars.

Chris, you do understand why they are called the "Bush" tax cuts, right? Of course, funding comes from Congress, where did he once ask for the "Bush" tax increases? He didn't? We can get into the whole "approved" the Iraq War based on false/fake/incorrect intelligence argument, but it is tiring and really not worth the time to rehash those arguments. We agree to disagree.

Not by much in the house, and most senate Democrats voted for it.

At least Bush did the right and legal thing and went to congress.

Yes Sanchez, but that does not look as good on a bumbler sticker as "Bush lied and people died"

The perceived "real world"seems a bit difficult to some...probably a result of public education..one way or the other.. as home school students grow into adults i have great hope that they will become the leaders and perhaps positive improvement can become the norm...the mold of government controlled public education is breaking, and does not function efficiently at all.

I agree 1ke...exactly the reason that I believe that home school...more parent involvement is a critical key to the success of our Country's future. The old broken ways can't really replace more parental involvement in life's learning process.

Sounds like you were a great student in high school Shaka?

Duh.

FIFA said: "the fatality rate from suicide attempts by gun is much higher than any other method attempted. As you state, damn lies, etc....."

FIFA, what relevance is that supposed to have to anything, other than to dissuade some poor despondent schlep from the frustration and agony of trying to kill himself with a fork? The discussion had to do with risks of murder, and potential security measures. And thus your stat about "guns deaths" compared evenly with vehicular fatalities is nonsense. Right off the bat, more than half of the stat you cited had NOTHING to do with measures to secure innocents from murderers wielding guns. NOTHING.

Unless you are thinking maybe everyone needs guards to protect himself from killing himself. And if so, will those be armed guards? And what of them if they choose to kill themselves? The nonsense is never-ending.

Your nonsense is an obscenity MIke. Guns are designed for many things, but the main purpose is to kill humans, whether by suicide or murder. Guns are very efficient killing tools. We in the USA kill more of our adults and children by guns than any other developed society not at war with itself. Do you not understand that? Why do you think that is? Moron.

Again, FIFA, what is your point? Sorry, but when discussing how best people can be secure in their persons from would-be murderers, suicide stats are not part of the math.

If you think you can really stop suicides by taking guns away you're living on planet Soccerball. If all the guns vanished, would SOME people live longer because they used a poorer tool to attempt suicide? Sure. So what? When talking about school security and armed guards and other measures to stop MURDERERS, suicide numbers are as irrelevant as balloon accidents.

BTW, if you are simply concerned about protecting human lives from others, end drug prohibition. It is just like alcohol prohibition.

And if you want to seriously curtail suicides, you'd better attack the motivation instead of the tools. Suicidal people will ALWAYS have the means, the motive and the opportunity. There will ALWAYS be means, gun or otherwise. There will ALWAYS be opportunity. That leaves motive as the only real inroad.

Last, if there is ONE thing in this world that is INARGUABLY yours, it is your body. Your meat. You. Everyone OWNS himself. If someone truly wants to kill himself, it's his option. And good luck stopping him.

No one but a fool thinks suicides are anything besides useful fodder to gun-grabbers. Suicidal people don't kill many others. And large magazines don't matter in suicides. The first bullet is the only one that counts.

FIFA wrote: "Your nonsense is an obscenity MIke. Guns are designed for many things, but the main purpose is to kill humans, whether by suicide or murder. Guns are very efficient killing tools. We in the USA kill more of our adults and children by guns than any other developed society not at war with itself. Do you not understand that? Why do you think that is? Moron."

"We in the US" don't kill more of our adults and children by guns than any other developed society. INDIVIDUALS in the US do. And examined by anyone who is not a fool or a deliberate deceiver, such killings fall into lots of categories and situations.

Consider that your concern for human life, based on your presentation of stats, indiscriminately counts a lethal shooting by a serial rapist to eliminate the witness the same as it counts a shooting by a would-be rape victim, killing her assailant.

THAT'S what obscene nonsense really looks like.

Emilie Parker, 1st grader at Sandy Hook, cause of death. Multiple, yes multiple, gunshot wounds from .223 AR15 look alike. Case closed.

Evets, as you can see, I absolutely did discuss these topics, but only to refute the nonsense that was being hurled about.

Regards,

Mike

Apparently and sadly Evets deleted another post from this thread.

Good grief.

Was that an answer to my question here jag..?..or are you just providing some good grief here..?

jag and Frank, I think you miss Buck's point. I think. I read his point as a sardonic but accurate commentary on how governments centralize power and, correspondingly, centralize control over violence and death. Whereas, it is FAR better for all when power is distributed throughout the people, rather than centrally held in governments, which history shows ALWAYS become corrupt.

Anyhow, that was my take on his point. I don't claim to speak for him, but that's what it sounded like from here.

Frank..you have surrendered to this topic..nothing that you say at this point is valid..
You're done..

That was my point Mike..I keep forgetting that there are some lacking IQ issues that seem to go with the turf of these Patch threads....thanks for spelling it out..

This topic is beyond your comprehension Frank...you surrendered.. it's the IQ that you lack...it leads you to this regular surrender syndrome...you can't help it..

Good luck Frank..

The beginning of another Frank surrender...why waste your time if it always must end in surrender Frank?

Ok Frank....I accept your surrender to this topic...you are done..once again...

Chris W, when is the time to talk about race? If not in connection with Ted Nugent, then, what about when the Latino serviceman was shot by police in Dundalk? No? Well, what about when there is a beating in the parking lot of one of Bel Air's bars? No?

Well, just say the word, Chris W, and we can start to talk about race and how it floods into our lives all day every day. Thanks, buddy.